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Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
To whom are they accountable?
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
I understand that distinction. I am grateful to you for that.
You touched on the issue of retention. The Royal College of Pathologists explained that
“small tissue samples taken for microscopy and diagnostic purposes are retained as part of the medical clinical record”.
It said that such samples
“could theoretically be returned to relatives, but the gain would be marginal and would need traded off against further complexities in the authorisation and consent processes, which are already difficult.”
We took evidence from Dr Adeley, a senior coroner in England, who said:
“What happens with any sample that contains even a single cell is that the family are asked what they want to be done with the sample when it is finished with. The family are given a number of choices. The coroner’s officer will ask whether the sample could be retained by the hospital for medical research and teaching, or it can be returned to the family and their undertaker.”
Indeed, Dr Adeley outlined a process whereby there can be a second funeral proceeding for the additional tissue. All that happens regularly and as a matter of course in England. Dr Adeley continued:
“Alternatively, they can elect for the sample to be disposed of by the hospital in a lawful and sensitive manner. Those are the three choices.”—[Official Report, Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee, 17 May 2023; c 18.]
It seems that there is an operational practice elsewhere in the United Kingdom that is executed with no complications and without any professional obstacles being put in place, yet such obstacles seem to be routinely put in place by the processes that apply in Scotland. Is that any longer appropriate? Could Scotland seek to operate in a much more transparent and humane manner, consistent with practice elsewhere in the UK?
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
Thank you—
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
To which minister in the Government does the responsibility fall?
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
I do think that that ought to be a matter of public concern. Both Mr Choudhury and Mr Ewing want to come in. Is it to develop this point or to touch on a different point?
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
We will go to Mr Choudhury and then to Mr Ewing.
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
Are brains always removed during a post mortem?
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
In each case, it would be possible to demonstrate the engagement that took place with the relatives in relation to the request that they had made regarding the desirability of a post mortem.
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
Thank you very much, Lord Advocate. That final remark was very helpful. If we have seemed a bit testy, it is not just because we are seeking to benefit from such an assurance; the committee is just a bit confused as to where best to pursue these points and colleagues will probably consider who else we might need to see to try to bring that position around. We look forward to receiving the additional written information that you have mentioned.
I invite Monica Lennon to say a few words, as someone who has actively engaged with the committee on the petition.
Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee
Meeting date: 14 June 2023
Jackson Carlaw
Thank you very much. I must also thank the petitioner for her forbearance. She is with us in the gallery this morning and we remember that it was the loss of her son that led to the petition that the Parliament is discussing. Thank you, again.
I also thank the Lord Advocate and Mr Shanks for their evidence. It has been very helpful to us and we look forward to receiving the further information. I am grateful for your time this morning.
We will now have a short suspension before our next evidence-taking session.
10:27 Meeting suspended.