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Displaying 1199 contributions
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
I am just trying to establish whether the points that panellists have made can be substantiated.
I want to stick with the theme of the existing regulatory environment and Professor Gemmell’s suggestions about whether it is operating or being utilised effectively. Clive Mitchell, in the evidence from NatureScot, you stated that the Environmental Liability (Scotland) Regulations 2009 provide an existing route to require remediation for environmental damage. You said:
“The threshold for when the Regulations apply is very high and so the Regulations have been rarely used”.
Can you expand on that? Is there a need for us to look at the fundamentals of the existing regulatory framework before we add anything new to it, in order to identify how it could be improved?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
Is it fair to say that there is no evidence that a higher offence provided for in a bill would be a deterrent? It might be, but there is no evidence to demonstrate that.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
It is just your gut instinct.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
Do any of the other witnesses want to come in?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
I turn to you, Mark Roberts, as the regulator of the regulators, if you like. Is there a risk that, if such a provision is not included in the bill, it could inhibit developments from taking place, because a licence would be needed, which could lead to further environmental damage in some perverse way?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
Sarah Hendry, given your legal expertise, do you think that there is a strong evidence base to demonstrate that regulations of this nature, or a bill containing an offence of this nature, would have a significant deterrent effect?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
That question is to Sarah Hendry.
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
Have you seen evidence of that happening in other jurisdictions?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
That is interesting. I suppose that you could get into a debate about the deterrent effect, as it might depend on the starting point of your environmental regulations and environmental law; once you create a criminal offence, there is the issue of how to enforce it, which also depends on your starting point.
I am interested to know what evidence base there is to support claims that the new offence will create a deterrent, compared with where we are just now. At one point, it was suggested that there has been an increase in the number of complaints but that the number of prosecutions has almost reached nil. Does that mean that a greater level of environmental harm is taking place now because there is not the level of enforcement that we would expect? There is an interesting relationship in there, which would need to be explored.
I will pick up on the issue of section 40 of the Regulatory Reform Act 2014. In its written evidence, SEPA suggests that an alternative route to the Ecocide (Scotland) Bill could be the creation of an offence that is equivalent to ecocide through amending the 2014 act. Would that be a preferable route to deal with the issue, rather than introducing a new piece of legislation?
Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 4 November 2025
Michael Matheson
Thanks.