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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 June 2025
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Displaying 1213 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Pauline McNeill

Thank you for that comprehensive answer. Fees for defence solicitors in particular have been in crisis for many years. The key question, which I do not think has been addressed by the Scottish Government, is in the way in which the rate is set. In the criminal justice system, prosecutors are paid a certain salary, but defence solicitors do not seem to have kept pace with the people that they are working alongside in the criminal courts. That is why we are losing solicitors from the profession. I know that the cabinet secretary will share my view that, if there is to be fairness in criminal justice for accused persons, it is important that we retain good solicitors in the profession. How will the budget address that specific point, and what are the cabinet secretary’s thoughts on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 13 November 2024

Pauline McNeill

Good morning. Cabinet secretary, you will be aware of press reports that indicate, not for the first time, an on-going crisis in legal aid. Some press reports have said that, since 2021, we have lost more than 400 solicitors from the system. Not all of those were lost because of the legal aid situation, I am sure, but certainly a high number were. There has already been a 23 per cent drop in the number of cases that solicitors have been paid for, so there has been less demand on the budget. However, that is a flat-line budget, so, in effect, there has been a cut to legal aid.

What approach is the Scottish Government taking to the crisis, given that it has not allocated an increase in the legal aid budget, and what is the thinking behind that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

Is that for police budgets?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

You know the reason that I am asking about that. There was a report in the press that you had appointed civilians to do what looks to a layperson as though it is detective work. That is why I am concerned.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

You have said that you like to think of having a workforce of 22,000. Is that by necessity? I wonder what the public think about that and what your view is. Given my role, I know that constituents want to see police officers protecting them from threat, harm and risk. In paragraph 24 of your submission, you say that you are

“working to establish a clear position on the right size”

of the police force. What does that amount to?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

On police numbers, based on the modelling that you were asked to do, which you referred to in your submission, police numbers could be as low as 15,000. Would that mean that you would have to make police officers redundant?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

Would the channels to change that be through the Scottish Government to the UK Government?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

That is a point well made. After all this time, there is no point in not rolling it out properly. We want to make sure that we minimise any issues that arise. Thank you for that.

I have one other question. In answer to another member, you said that Wales has a higher per capita—

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

I understand. I can see the sense in that: you want to ensure that front-line policing is the best that it can be. You do not mean that you would civilianise police jobs.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Pauline McNeill

My question was whether the Government has given you an indication of its response on multiyear funding.