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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 May 2025
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Displaying 1041 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I point to the fact that the Children and Young People’s Commissioner operates in an environment that is quite legislation heavy—for example, it involves the children’s hearings system, and a small proportion of children and young people become involved in the criminal justice system. Therefore, it is a fair comparison. All the things that you mentioned, such as court rules and procedures, scheduling, the environment and pre-recorded evidence, have a direct link with trauma-informed practice and trauma-informed approaches. Although the operational delivery of those matters rests elsewhere, the purpose of the bill, in cementing and placing duties on people to demonstrate trauma-informed practice, is to be a lever. It is not the only lever, but it is certainly a lever for changing how operational decisions are made and implemented.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

Victim Support Scotland has been one of the biggest advocates for a victims and witnesses commissioner. It published a paper making the case for such a commissioner in 2021. I know that Victim Support Scotland’s Kate Wallace has given evidence to the committee.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

In broad terms, yes. The provisions in the bill seek to do two things. We indeed want systemic change, and we want to develop a shared understanding and consistency of approach. We want all that, on the one hand. On the other hand, there is a recognition that justice agencies will need flexibility to implement the provisions in a way that is tailored to their context, for the very reasons that you have outlined. The bill does that by creating a statutory definition of trauma-informed practice that requires agencies to have regard to trauma-informed practice in their work with victims and witnesses. The provisions are crafted in a way that empowers courts to set rules and procedures on trauma-informed practice in both criminal and civil business.

How trauma-informed practice is defined is informed by the trauma-informed knowledge and skills framework for the justice sector, although, as with any legal definition, that has to fit in with legislation. Some definitions, such as those used in the Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill, are dependent on previous legislation. As with any legislation, we are not starting from scratch.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I assure members that we have lots of discussions about resources with our partners on an on-going basis.

I think that the costs for parts 1, 2 and 3 of the bill are pretty well defined and clear. I am conscious that organisations such as the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service are smaller from the point of view of overall budget and size of operation than the likes of Police Scotland, and that we must give some cognisance to smaller organisations.

However, it is appropriate for me to test any supplementary evidence from stakeholders about costs. It is important to remember that not all of what the bill seeks to do is about additional resource, although I do not demur from the reality that there is a cost to the bill.

Some of this is not about additional duties but about changing what we do at the core. I argue that, if we get it right and embed trauma-informed practice, that will support and encourage a more efficient justice system. It will particularly affect how we schedule, in that the implementation of trauma-informed practice is a clarion call to organise the system to reduce delays. It is all interrelated. Some of this is about approach, culture and practice, as well as being about resources.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I certainly want their use to be reduced. I acknowledge that it is a matter of live debate just now, and that I need to be cognisant of a range of voices. I know that, for victims, uncertainty is a factor that causes real distress. I am being somewhat cautious because I think that, at this point in time, if we took a more inflexible approach, that would cause further harm and distress, and I therefore think that a more flexible approach is the appropriate response.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

Yes. I would be a bit nervous about an amendment on something so substantive, but that does not mean that there is not merit in pursuing that work further.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

We have a lot more work to do. You are a chancer.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

We have a long journey to go on together, Mr Findlay. We will be pals by the end of it.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I was about to mention Chief Superintendent Derek Frew’s comments, Mr Findlay.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 November 2023

Angela Constance

I will ask officials to speak on that point, but in part 5 of the bill there is an obligation on all the actors and players in the sexual offences court to be trauma informed. We will discuss that part of the bill later. There is also a desire and a commitment for the judiciary to be trauma informed.