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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1943 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Thanks. I have a final, very quick question. Is there a shining example of fostering good relations that you could tell us about?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. I want to focus on balancing characteristics and fostering good relations. It has been a bugbear of mine for some years that there has been limited understanding of, and virtually no conversation about, what fostering good relations means, and you have picked up on that. It has been very much the poor cousin of the various elements of the public sector equality duty. Why do you think that it is so hard for public bodies to grasp what fostering good relations means and what such a process should look like? In your view, what would good practice look like when it comes to fostering good relations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Do you get a sense from any of your conversations with Police Scotland, either as part of the uniformed services project or elsewhere, that the notion of balancing needs—as opposed to risks—is sometimes used as an excuse to do nothing?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Jennifer, do you want to come in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Can you give us more of a flavour of some of those projects might be, or is it too early to say? One challenge is that the Government says, “We’ve got this money for community cohesion”, but people on the ground wonder what it actually means for them, especially if they live in situations where there is conflict and tension and they feel powerless to resolve it.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

I appreciate that the examples that you have given are indicative and that you have not given an exhaustive list. However, one of my concerns is that, although such work is very valuable and important, people need to opt in, so there is a challenge in how we get those resources and have those conservations in communities that do not want to know about those things. In such communities, there might have been generations of disenfranchisement—there could have been a series of situations that have led people to think that nothing good can come from engaging with the state in a meaningful way.

How can we tackle the structural barriers that prevent the fostering of good relations? We can say that we will have a knit and natter group, for example, but the people who need such groups will not necessarily be the ones who come to them. How can we ensure that it is not just a case of opting in and including people who are already interested in being in these kinds of spaces and having these kinds of conversations?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

Do I have time to ask one last question, convener?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Public Sector Equality Duty

Meeting date: 13 January 2026

Maggie Chapman

I will come to the guidance in a moment, but when you talk about confidence, do you mean confidence in doing something or confidence in understanding what fostering good relations means? I think that those are two different things, and I see weaknesses in both. Which are you referring to?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 16 December 2025

Maggie Chapman

I have a question. I understand what you say about the pragmatism in that approach, but drafting the bill in such a way as to ensure that compatibility with the UNCRC was not, or could not be, entertained seems odd—it is odd at best and problematic at worst. This is the first opportunity that the Scottish Government has had to expand children’s rights and to do so in a way that allows the test against UNCRC compatibility to come into play, and you have chosen to take a different route. Can you give a little bit more understanding of why that was the case?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 16 December 2025

Maggie Chapman

Amendment 40 has the same aim as my other amendments this morning and the same aim as the original bill had for the rights of children and young people. It would ensure that young people can be heard on any decision that is made by their parents to withdraw them from religious observance. However, the key difference is that the provision would be enacted as a stand-alone provision, rather than as an amendment to the 1980 act. Together argues that that places the bill outwith the scope of the 2024 act. It means that children will have no direct route to challenge breaches of their rights in relation to the new provisions, given our current situation with UNCRC incorporation. As well as the separation of religious education and observance, and the independent right to withdraw, that is one of the three key changes requested by Together in its letter to the committee of 13 October 2025 that are designed to ensure that part 1 of the bill fully aligns with UNCRC.

Although I appreciate that the commissioner has not taken a position on amendment 40, she has made the same call as Together for this right to be established separately from the 1980 act, for the reasons that I have outlined above.

I move amendment 40.

11:15