Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning. Thank you for being here and for what you have already told us. I want to focus on two areas: I will drill down into progress on participation rates in the labour market, and the action plan and targets.

On participation rates, we have heard already this morning that there has been progress, but we cannot necessarily pinpoint what has been successful, or why it has been successful in certain places. I will pick up on a couple of things.

First, what do you need to know in order to identify what is and is not working, and are you confident that we have a plan to get that information? There are the raw numbers, but Michelle Thomson talked about the culture; there is something other than just the numbers.

I have a couple of other questions that might relate to Colin Smyth’s and Jamie Halcro Johnston’s points about there being a postcode lottery. The participation figure is a nationwide figure. Are you sure that it is not masking further inequality, either in geographic areas or in sectors? Since the call for views, we have had a response from NHS Tayside’s disability employment network that says that the gap seems to be widening again after initial progress. Can you drill down into that a bit more so that we understand the sectoral and geographical variations, and the intersectional issues, such as whether older disabled people are more disadvantaged than younger disabled people, for instance? Can you say a bit more about those matters?

I suppose that that links to the point about progress on the action plan and the targets. You have identified very clearly that we are on course, at the moment. Do you sense that we will continue with that linear progress, or is there a possibility that it will either speed up or hit a plateau? What is the assessment of the rate of progress over the next 15 years?

You have talked about the importance of culture change. I think that there is a balance to be struck between supporting people at different stages of their lives and supporting and encouraging culture change among employers. Do you see a challenge in respect of the person-centred support that the policies and plans are based on and broader structural and systemic matters? This might relate to the joined-upness that we need in the data, and to how we think about enhanced inclusion for everyone. Where do you see the balance being between focusing on support for the individual and making structural changes, whether in making sure that there is inclusive transport in rural areas, or whatever? How do we get that balance right and how do we get joined-upness across the Government? That is not only your responsibility; it connects to so many other areas.

I am struck by what you have said about recognition. Recently, we have seen quite a lot of information relating to racial profiling in the police, for instance, and on-going work to improve that, but reports keep coming back that our police service uses racial profiling. What would such accountability look like for the police specifically or any other public agency?

Pinar, did you want to come in?

Welcome, everybody, and thank you for joining us. In our first panel this morning, we heard about the mismatch between fine words, policies and strategies and actually delivering accountable actions on the ground to change Scotland’s approach to racism and to challenge the underlying systemic racist society in which we live.

Graham, you picked up on some specific issues with the UK Government and Home Office, and how they are, in your words, profoundly racist. From a Scottish perspective, what avenues should the Scottish Parliament be working on to support the people with whom you work? I ask Pinar to come in after your response.

What would that look like?

That is okay. Obviously, there is a barrier. There is a gap between the recommendations and what we know is wrong, and overcoming that barrier or hurdle. What are we—the Scottish Government, the Scottish Parliament and politicians—doing wrong, and how can we overcome—

It is about the systemic and ingrained racism in Scottish society.

Thank you—that is helpful.

My final question perhaps touches on some of the supplementary questions that Rachael Hamilton asked about a cross-sectoral approach. Obviously, we can say more about what we can ask or demand of public agencies, but there is another key role here.

Farah Farzana, you talked about your organisations and others that might be providing quite small-scale, local support, whether that is mentoring or something else. Is enough support given to that kind of work within the third sector by organisations such as yours, but also to other bits of the third sector that provide services for ethnic minority communities and individuals? Is there enough information flowing within the third sector and between public and third sector bodies around cultural sensitivities and broadening our collective understanding as a society?