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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 May 2025
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Displaying 1616 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I will briefly wind up. Like others, I did not come to the meeting today convinced that a motion to annul was the right way forward, but that was before I listened to the minister’s answers. There seemed to be no real commitment to the process changing, so I think that a motion to annul is our only option. I do not think that we will be doing our scrutiny function any justice were we to continue to use the model, given the evidence that we have taken.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Yes.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Bob Doris asked me about my motives for the annulment motion. I want to set out straight away that it is not about trying to derail franchising; it is about trying to ensure that we get it right. When I lodged the motion to annul, I did not think that I would move it. My idea was to listen to the minister’s answers, then decide. From the answers that have been given, it is clear that annulling would not really delay franchising. We heard that in the answer to a question from Graham Simpson.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

We need to have legislation that is correct and which works. It is up to the Government to review what is in place and then to bring forward changes that will actually do what we want to do. We have seen evidence on the experience in other parts of the UK, where the approach has not really worked. Wales is doing something completely different. I understand that that is not comparing apples with apples, but it is right that we learn lessons and try to improve the legislation.

It would be wrong for us just to say, “This is what was decided back in 2019 and we need to move forward with it regardless.” That would be daft, and we would potentially end up in a worse situation. I was concerned that annulling the SSI would delay things. However, from what we have heard today, I gather that SPT will continue with its work. We already seem to be stuck in the slow lane with franchising, and annulling the SSI would give us a little bit of time to make sure that we get the legislation correct and can then move forward with a franchising model that will work for us all.

I move,

That the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee recommends that the Local Services Franchises (Traffic Commissioner Notices and Panels) (Scotland) Regulations 2024 (SSI 2024/229) be annulled.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Will Mark Ruskell take an intervention?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

You said that we would end up with an inferior process if the regulations are annulled, but surely that will happen only if the Government does not make changes to get it right going forward.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

You have mentioned SPT. What discussions have you had with it on the issue?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

The financial budget also includes the capital budget. How would that work with this? I imagine that a lot more work would have to be done to work out the carbon impact of a capital project or programme. That could mean budgets having to come back maybe months later because the carbon side of things does not match up. I am just trying to think of the practicalities of how it would or could work.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

I am just trying to understand what the “exceptional” circumstances might be. Have you any idea?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Climate Change (Emissions Reduction Targets) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 29 October 2024

Douglas Lumsden

Thank you, convener—I am sure that Mr Whittle is full of regret for not being here today.

I will speak only to amendment 46, which is intended to bring the wording of the bill more into line with the UK legislation. It would put issues that the carbon budgets must “have regard to” in the text of the bill, which would give the Government a clear direction and—one would hope—the ability to think across portfolios in respect of the climate change plan.

The need for the Government to create climate change plans in a more holistic way was outlined in the CCC’s evidence to the committee. For example, if the Government had given regard to social, economic and fiscal circumstances in creating a heat pump target, that target may have been achievable.

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