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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 25 May 2025
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Displaying 1635 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

The figure seems to be based on the £6,500 weekly cost for secure accommodation. So, my final question is about whether the cost for a 12-year-old in secure accommodation is the same as the cost of a 17-year-old. Would we expect to see differences between those two costs?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

So you do not anticipate that secure accommodation providers will charge more for a 17-year-old.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Minister, what assurances can you give local government that it will not be impacted financially by the bill?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Skills and training are an area that has been highlighted. Will that be covered by the updated financial memorandum?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Social Work Scotland was quite critical as well. It said that it

“does not consider that the Financial Memorandum sufficiently appreciates the scale and financial costs of those changes.”

Should the committee be alarmed by that statement?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Okay. They will, I hope, be addressed.

Police Scotland and the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service have noted that the legislation has potential cost implications for their organisations that are not reflected in the FM, but they did not give any indication of their scale. What engagement was done with Police Scotland, for example? Why did it not feel that it could elaborate on what the potential costs might be?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Yes, that is right. It noted that the bill has potential cost implications for the organisation that are not reflected in the financial memorandum but did not give an indication of their scale. It was strange that COPFS raised concerns but did not quantify them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

I will return to something that John Mason asked about, which was the lower and upper estimates of the cost of ending the keeping of under-18s in young offenders institutions. The lower cost estimate is £5.41 million and the upper cost estimate is also £5.41 million. It seems unusual that there is no difference between those two figures. Can you explain that? Is the figure completely fixed?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Do you think that there is a danger of some of those decisions being taken behind closed doors and of things being done in different ways?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Effective Scottish Government Decision Making

Meeting date: 9 May 2023

Douglas Lumsden

Thank you. Sophie Howe and Steve Martin, do you have a view on transparency in decisions that were taken?