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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 November 2025
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Displaying 807 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I will go back to something that Katie Hagmann was saying about the fiscal framework. The Verity house agreement stated that a fiscal framework would be concluded by the end of September 2023. Obviously, that has not happened. Four weeks ago, the Deputy First Minister said:

“Already many of the principles we have agreed together are being put into practice, such as improved engagement ahead of the publication of the Scottish Budget”.

Would you agree with that assessment, given that COSLA was blindsided by the decision to freeze the council tax? When can we expect the framework to be completed?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Councillor Hagmann, you said that you had a positive meeting with the Scottish Government after the announcement of the council tax freeze. Having spoken to 24 local authorities, I know how they are feeling. Since that meeting, do they feel that they have much more certainty with regard to the Verity house agreement and the work on the fiscal framework?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

That is good to hear. As I said, minister, I welcome that. I will wait to see progress, because it is a shame that councils still have that pressure when school rolls are declining but other areas are growing and probably need funding.

You mentioned £144 million. Obviously, the Scottish Government claims to have funded the council tax freeze pledge by providing £144 million to local authorities. However, the Fraser of Allander Institute estimated that freezing council tax alone might cost Scottish councils up to £229 million, which will leave a substantial shortfall for our councils. How do you respond to claims that a freeze will have a detrimental impact on councils’ tax base in future years? Where should councils look for savings in their budgets? In which departments and areas should they do that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning, panel. My question is about ring fencing. The director of finance at East Lothian Council told us how around three quarters of its budget had been wrapped up in directed spend, and it still had all of its policy commitments to deal with. Such an approach did not really provide any flexibility, despite some formerly ring-fenced budgets being baselined. To what extent is the budget un-ring-fenced, and what is COSLA’s role in that process?

Councillor Hagmann, you mentioned the policy commitments, so I will start with you.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thanks, Mirren. Do you have anything to add, David?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I am fully aware of that letter. All the authorities that I spoke to mentioned it, and it is good that progress is being made and that you are looking at the issue differently. However, I want to probe that further. The question that I asked was whether local authorities should retain teacher numbers. Of course, teachers are very helpful, and I absolutely agree that no Opposition party would come back to you on that. However, my question was about declining enrolment. What formula do you use if pressure is put on local authorities to retain teacher numbers but enrolment is declining? I have heard from many local authorities on that—I spoke to a lot of chief executive officers, and they said that they still have that pressure.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 16 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you, minister. I look forward to that progressive work.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning and happy new year, everyone.

I have been speaking to councils right across Scotland, including all four of your councils. The general sentiment about the Verity house agreement is that it is definitely needed. All the councils welcome the agreement, but not one of them believes that it has been working. One council said that it could not think of a single initiative to which the principles of the Verity house agreement had been applied. Can any of you give an example of where the Verity house agreement has been applied and, if so, explain how that might be replicated in future practices?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

When we spoke to local authorities, it was highlighted that they face penalties if they attempt to make savings on teacher numbers even if there are declining school rolls. What impact do such requirements have on the physical flexibility in local authorities?

On the flipside, the challenges in East Lothian are different from those in Argyll and Bute. There are more challenges in East Lothian due to the growth that is taking place there. What does the ring fencing of funds in certain areas mean for local authorities and their flexibility? How does that allow you to innovate rather than look just at teacher numbers? My question is about both sides: decline and growth.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 9 January 2024

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you.

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