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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 760 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Budget 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I thank the minister and her official for that response.

Minister, you have said that 43 out of 48 organisations are smaller, advocacy ones. Are you saying that 43 organisations are not the larger ones—that they are more niche in those areas? We know that some organisations deliver on helping people from BAME backgrounds but that it sometimes does not come to light—they must prove that by giving their figures and statistics to the Government because their data is not collected. I know that because my domestic abuse bill was looking at the matter of certain data not being collected. The information on data is kind of bottom up rather than top down. How much does that affect your decisions, and are you saying that 43 out of the 48 organisations that are being funded are smaller ones and that there are five larger ones?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Budget 2025-26

Meeting date: 25 February 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you, minister.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Okay. In the light of what the minister said about discussing the matter with us before stage 3, I am happy to not move amendment 549. However, I wanted to put on the record those important points, which have not been clarified through amendments.

Amendment 549 not moved.

Amendments 550 to 552 not moved.

Amendment 273 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Amendments 553 and 554 not moved.

Amendments 642 and 274 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Amendment 555 not moved.

Amendment 275 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 39, as amended, agreed to.

Section 40—Offence of pretending to be an authorised legal business

Amendments 276 and 277 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 40, as amended, agreed to.

Section 41—Rules for authorised legal businesses

Amendment 278 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Amendment 556 not moved.

Amendments 279 to 287 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 41, as amended, agreed to.

Section 42—Authorisation rules

Amendments 288 to 295 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 42, as amended, agreed to.

Section 43—Appeals in relation to authorisation decisions

Amendments 296 to 299 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 43, as amended, agreed to.

Section 44—Practice rules

Amendment 300 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 44, as amended, agreed to.

Section 45—Financial sanctions

Amendments 301 to 304 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 45, as amended, agreed to.

Section 46—Reconciling different rules

Amendment 305 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 46, as amended, agreed to.

Section 47—Monitoring of performance of authorised legal businesses

Amendments 306 and 307 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 47, as amended, agreed to.

Section 48—Law Society of Scotland

Amendment 308 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 48, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 1

Amendments 5 to 26 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

My stage 2 amendments to the bill are centred on the definition of legal businesses and how that definition is affected by the bill. When I spoke to representatives from the Law Society, they expressed concerns that the bill would make it difficult for certain businesses to operate in Scotland. The bill defines

“a legal business”

as being

“wholly owned by”

either

“solicitors, or ... qualifying ... individuals”,

but not a mixture.

The language in the bill makes no provision for any share of ownership being held by any registered foreign lawyer, which includes a lawyer who can practise law elsewhere in the United Kingdom. That is why my amendments 549, 551, 552 and 554 would clarify that registered foreign lawyers can participate in, and own, a legal business “in combination with” solicitors.

Other amendments in the group also seek to improve the definition of legal businesses, which, as currently drafted, is not wide enough to cover ownership and employment outwith Scotland. Amendments 553, 555 and 641, in the name of Paul O’Kane, would build on my amendments by specifying that a law firm can be owned by a “combination of ... persons.” I am happy to support those amendments. I am also happy to support amendment 556, which would add to the list of what authorised legal business rules should contain.

I am happy to support Scottish Government amendments 271, 272 and 274 to 309, which will significantly remove powers of Scottish Government ministers to regulate the legal sector, and which offer clarity where needed.

11:45  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

I thank the minister for her engagement on the bill and for our meeting last week, and I acknowledge the amendments that she has lodged. However, after speaking to the Law Society, I believe that my amendments sufficiently clarify some nuances when it comes to the ownership of legal businesses. For example, amendment 549 clarifies that a “solicitor” could include a foreign solicitor. Section 39 does not make that clear, and nor does any of the other amendments.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Okay. In the light of what the minister said about discussing the matter with us before stage 3, I am happy to not move amendment 549. However, I wanted to put on the record those important points, which have not been clarified through amendments.

Amendment 549 not moved.

Amendments 550 to 552 not moved.

Amendment 273 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Amendments 553 and 554 not moved.

Amendments 642 and 274 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Amendment 555 not moved.

Amendment 275 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 39, as amended, agreed to.

Section 40—Offence of pretending to be an authorised legal business

Amendments 276 and 277 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 40, as amended, agreed to.

Section 41—Rules for authorised legal businesses

Amendment 278 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Amendment 556 not moved.

Amendments 279 to 287 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 41, as amended, agreed to.

Section 42—Authorisation rules

Amendments 288 to 295 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 42, as amended, agreed to.

Section 43—Appeals in relation to authorisation decisions

Amendments 296 to 299 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 43, as amended, agreed to.

Section 44—Practice rules

Amendment 300 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 44, as amended, agreed to.

Section 45—Financial sanctions

Amendments 301 to 304 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 45, as amended, agreed to.

Section 46—Reconciling different rules

Amendment 305 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 46, as amended, agreed to.

Section 47—Monitoring of performance of authorised legal businesses

Amendments 306 and 307 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 47, as amended, agreed to.

Section 48—Law Society of Scotland

Amendment 308 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Section 48, as amended, agreed to.

Schedule 1

Amendments 5 to 26 moved—[Siobhian Brown]—and agreed to.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Jan, do you have anything to add?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Good morning. Thank you for your opening statements and for all the information that you have provided so far.

I want to move on from my colleague Paul O’Kane’s questions. The state of the nation report provides an assessment of how civil and political rights are met in Scotland. In fact, the commission found that human rights failings occur across Scotland, specifically in places of detention and across rural communities. Extensive barriers were also reported in justice, which you have mentioned—you have talked about the monitoring. How has that report been received? What feeling do you get that the Scottish Government and public authorities are going to address those failings? You have mentioned the monitoring, but will they address those failings?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you. I have a supplementary, and then I will ask one more question.

Even to this day, women are still at a disadvantage compared with men, and that is especially true of women in custody. Two years ago, a male double rapist was briefly put into a women’s prison simply because he had claimed that he was a woman. That put many vulnerable women at risk. Do you recognise the importance of single-sex spaces and services, especially when it comes to vulnerable women such as women in custody or in rape crisis centres?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Scottish Human Rights Commission

Meeting date: 14 January 2025

Dr Pam Gosal MBE

Thank you. Angela O’Hagan, you said that you spoke to the First Minister. You may not want to divulge what was said, but were your recommendations and your considerations well received? As you say, it is good that there was a debate on the report, but was it received well?