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All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
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Displaying 1226 contributions
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 May 2022
Katy Clark
The idea is that the Government would have to come back with specific proposals in primary legislation, given all the concerns. It is not a principled objection to the licensing scheme.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 May 2022
Katy Clark
Amendment 68 is an important amendment. I hope that it will draw out many of the issues that the committee has grappled with over a number of weeks. It has never been clear exactly what the definition of public events will be, and it is not clear whether groups such as community groups will be included in that definition or whether they will be required to obtain a licence in the same way as individuals. That could have massive ramifications. If community groups and charities are considered to be in the group that will require a licence, there will be financial consequences as well as consequences with regard to the restrictions that will be placed on them about the use of fireworks and when they may organise displays.
Amendment 68 provides an opportunity for us to hear more from the minister on the thinking about how the licensing scheme will operate. I am concerned that community groups will have unreasonable financial pressures put on them if they are covered by the licensing scheme, whereas professional organisations will not face the same requirements and will not have to pay for a licence. We do not know what the cost of a licence will be, but we have been told that it will probably be between £20 and £50.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 May 2022
Katy Clark
Given the discussion that has taken place, is Jamie Greene’s understanding that the effect of the bill will be to push community groups down the path of using professional bodies? That is perhaps the direction of travel that we are going in. On the basis of the bill, those bodies can operate all year round. Does Jamie Greene think that that is probably where we are going?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 May 2022
Katy Clark
I am worried about the onerous nature of the licensing scheme and, therefore, have concerns about restricting the period to two years, given the additional cost. I wonder whether there is another way of dealing with the matter. For example, if somebody is convicted of a fireworks offence—or, indeed, another offence—there could be an obligation on them to contact the relevant authorities. I put that into the debate for consideration.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 May 2022
Katy Clark
I echo the points that have been made in all the contributions so far, including the concern about the lack of prosecutions under existing legislation and, indeed, the further concern that that may mean that there would not be effective use of this legislation if it were passed, although it would result in law-abiding citizens having to go to a great deal of extra trouble and expense to adhere to the licensing system.
I do not envisage that the amendment would delay implementation of the bill. It is about providing the whole country and, in particular, the Parliament and the committee with information that should already have been shared. We need to understand why there has been a failure to investigate and prosecute under existing legislation.
In the chamber, the minister referred to reasons why it might be difficult to prosecute under existing legislation. I got the impression that those might be technical difficulties to do with preparing cases and meeting the evidence standard. I am not clear about that and it would be useful if the minister or the Government could provide information about why there may be difficulties. With other types of case—for example, rape cases—we would have looked in detail at that issue to understand why prosecutions are taken or not taken and why the evidential base might or might not exist.
It would be useful to understand why the Crown Office has not taken prosecutions. Is it because resources or priority have not been given to such cases or are there other reasons? That is exactly what would be highlighted in a review, so I do not envisage that the amendment would delay the bill’s implementation. However, we need that information and putting a review into the bill is an effective way to ensure that it is built into the Parliament’s and the Government’s work. For that reason, I support Jamie Greene’s proposals.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 25 May 2022
Katy Clark
These are the issues that we are grappling with. I do not claim to be an expert on the regulation of professional firework displays or how they are defined. They might be carried out by professional organisations that meet very high standards with regard to professional qualifications in a well-regulated sector. It might be that the organisations already have strenuous obligations placed on them with regard to regulations, costs, requirements to keep up to date with safety certification and so on. However, it would be interesting to know more about that.
I am sympathetic to amendment 68, but it would be useful to hear more about the Government’s thinking on the licensing scheme. Was it always the intention that organisations such as community groups and charities would be included in the licensing scheme or are they considered to be the type of organisations that undertake public events? The committee has discussed the definition of public events on several occasions, but one of the concerns about the licensing scheme is that it is not clear who will be included in it. I look forward to the rest of the discussion on the group.
11:45Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 May 2022
Katy Clark
Miles, are you able to talk about how big a factor organised crime is?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 May 2022
Katy Clark
I was going to ask about organised crime—perhaps we will come on to that later. First, though, I would be interested to hear from those involved in this area how they think perpetrators are created. We have heard that there are a lot of parallels between perpetrators and those who have experienced violence, and there has been a lot of work on violence. We know that experiencing poverty, trauma and violence leads people to be more violent when they grow older. Are there any themes in relation to why people become perpetrators? Is it because they have been victims themselves? That might be one factor, but there might be others. We need to be able to understand those in order to frame a co-ordinated strategy.
Do any of the witnesses who have direct experience have any evidence that might be of use to the committee on that? Perhaps it would be best to start with Stuart Allardyce.
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 May 2022
Katy Clark
Gina Wilson, do you want to come in on that? From your perspective, is that a major issue on your radar?
Criminal Justice Committee
Meeting date: 18 May 2022
Katy Clark
That is interesting. It is a massive topic that we do not have the opportunity to explore properly now.
We have been discussing organised crime. Obviously, there are links between organised crime and some of the other issues that we are discussing. Perhaps Bex Smith would be a good person to talk a little bit about that.