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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 May 2025
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Displaying 1673 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

To go back to my point, nobody is suggesting that there are not problems with accessing justice, but the blunt tool of more money seems slightly jarring. Do you agree with that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

I want to ask Mr Lancaster about fraud and abuse of legal aid. By my reckoning, just under £1.9 billion of legal aid has been paid out since the banking crash, and some have found such rich pickings rather tempting. In my previous job as a journalist, I reported extensively on a number of solicitors who committed suspected fraud with regard to legal aid. I will not name names—it is all in the public domain—but it is worth while touching on some of the details.

One particular solicitor claimed £600,000 in two years. The claims were unnecessary and excessive and were made to exploit the legal aid fund, but it still took four years to ban him for making any more claims. Another submitted 81 accounts that were described as fictional and fraudulent, but he was not prosecuted. A third solicitor who claimed £560,000 in one year had a history of such abuse, but, again, it took several more years to strike him off.

Around the same time, we became aware of 14 solicitors, who might or might not have included the three whom I have mentioned, being reported to the Crown Office for similar fraud, but none was the subject of criminal proceedings. As the gatekeeper and guardian of these huge sums of public money, do you know whether similar types of abuse are still happening today?

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

I have the Evans report here—I can quote some of it, if you like. Referring to the Law Society of Scotland’s Otterburn report, the Evans report states:

“Assumptions appear to have been made in the report and notional calculations used to reach the hourly rate”—

for the purpose of a press release—

“rather than figures provided by respondents.”

Mr Evans describes the Otterburn report as

“an admirable attempt by the Law Society of Scotland to quantify the commercial viability of conducting legal aid work”,

but he concludes that there is no evidential basis for raising fees. Do you discount the Evans report in its entirety? Do you recognise that picture?

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

Could I ask two more brief questions, or are we moving on?

Criminal Justice Committee

Legal Aid

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

Professor Paterson, do you believe that there is any risk that the previous warnings from the Law Society of Scotland over many years—the Law Society being a very effective lobbying organisation—will count against it today? It is a case of crying wolf, perhaps—or that could be the public perception.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

I agree broadly with everything that has been said. As Jamie Greene noted, we are where we are. We were given only a partial picture a week ago and it took the committee agitating for some answers to reveal a much more complex picture. In future, if we can, we should ensure that the authorities with which we are dealing are a bit more forthcoming in respect of such issues, especially when we are on a precipice and there is not much that we can do other than note our concerns.

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 September 2021

Russell Findlay

We should also write to the inspectorate.

Criminal Justice Committee

Domestic Abuse, Gendered Violence and Sexual Offences (Priorities in Session 6)

Meeting date: 22 September 2021

Russell Findlay

My questions, which are on the not proven verdict, are for Ronnie Renucci and James Chalmers. I will ask them one after the other.

Mr Renucci, on the not proven verdict and what might happen to it, the Faculty of Advocates highlights the need

“to identify the changes in our criminal justice system”

that would come along with any such change and that failure to do so would risk “jeopardising reliable justice”. Can you expand on what those fears or potential unforeseen consequences might be?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims’ Rights and Victim Support

Meeting date: 22 September 2021

Russell Findlay

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims’ Rights and Victim Support

Meeting date: 22 September 2021

Russell Findlay

Has the Government indicated how long the review will take, or when it will get round to it?