Seòmar agus comataidhean

It is nice to see you again and good to do so in person.

I fully acknowledge that the results of the client survey were relatively—in fact pretty overwhelmingly—positive, but I am keen that, where it was suggested that improvements are necessary, we nip those issues in the bud quite quickly, so I have a couple of questions about that. In particular, one in four people felt that they were not able to challenge the decision that was made by Social Security Scotland. What are you going to do about that, given what we know about the inability of people to challenge decisions in other areas of social security, in particular DWP decisions? I am also keen to know about the redeterminations that were made, as half of them were successful. That is quite a lot. I know that there were not many redeterminations, but given that half of them were successful, I am keen to know what you are going to do to address the problems in the original decision making.

I have another couple of questions on this theme, but I will come back to them.

Awareness about referrals, yes.

That would be helpful. Thank you.

I have a number of questions specifically around supporting groups that are most likely to experience fuel poverty, including disabled people and people in various regions of Scotland, such as rural regions, and what the fuel poverty strategy says on that. I am keen to hear more from Alastair Wilcox about what else, apart from increasing incomes, we can do to address that.

I also have a question for Robert Leslie about rural fuel poverty. As you know, some local authorities have said they have concerns with the Government in relation to the £6,000 grant limit for retrofitting social housing. Notwithstanding the point that you made about recruitment, how do you think that the Government could provide sufficient support to local authorities?

Finally, do you have any thoughts on innovative retrofitting financial solutions, such as the people-powered retrofitting programme that is happening in Portsmouth?

Thank you, convener. I also thank the witnesses for their patience. I have a couple of points about the research question. John Greenall said that we need more randomised control trials. We have heard quite a lot of evidence from people that, because of the numbers that are involved, we also need to focus on a lot of the qualitative evidence. It is important to put that point on the record.

I want to ask about prayer. Forgive me for probing the issue at this time, but I think that it is important to do so. I am really pleased to hear from Anthony Horan that his office has said that the focus should be on all therapies that claim to change or suppress sexual orientation or gender. Can you explain how that could work in relation to prayer or teachings in harmony with the teaching of the church? What would the goal of the prayer be? Does the church offer prayer support for heterosexual people having sex outwith marriage?

In addition, I have some concerns about the group Courage. From comments made by the church to the media, I understand that:

“Courage provides pastoral support for those experiencing same-sex attraction who want to grow in holiness by living live chaste lives.”

Can you can confirm whether the work of Courage seeks to suppress parts of someone’s sexuality? Is that targeted at LGBT people only?

Good morning, panel. To be honest, I do not know quite where to start, so I will begin with the issue of definition, if that is all right.

I am interested in hearing a bit more about, and in unpicking, the notion of forced and coercive practices. We have heard from various people that a person cannot consent to something that is considered to be torturous, and the committee has certainly heard about some horrific experiences that people have gone through. Some of those experiences, such as corrective rape, have been in the realm of what Piers Shepherd mentioned, but some of them have brought about psychological harm over a number of years in a much gentler way that allows someone to internalise deep-seated oppression and discrimination. We have heard that that has been incredibly harmful for people, so I am very keen to understand what you think the difference is between forced and coercive practices, if you think that there is a difference. If you do, can you define “forced”?

Can you also tell us more about your understanding of consent? The independent forensic expert group advised not only that a person cannot consent to torture but that they cannot consent to a practice if they do not understand its outcome. The group believes that there is no medical or scientific basis whatsoever for conversion therapy that aims to change or suppress someone’s sexual orientation or gender identity. Given that a person can consent only if they have all the facts and that the facts seem to suggest that change and suppression are not possible, how do you suggest that we consider the issue of consent?

Yes, please.

Good morning, minister, and thank you for setting that out. My question is probably quite basic. Why, given that South of Scotland Enterprise was created in 2019, are we adding it to the list only now? Has the Government done any assessment of the time that we might have lost in that, and of whether there is a risk that we could have lost some vital work?

Thank you. As a person who has experienced quite a lot of oppression and discrimination in my time, I understand how someone can internalise a view to such an extent that they believe that they are consenting to something that is the right thing to do.

However, my understanding from witnesses that we have heard from is that the support that you described in relation to the two people you mentioned would not be prohibited. For example, Dr Moon, whom Anthony Horan mentioned, said:

“Affirmative therapy is the way that therapists work flexibly with clients—children and adults—to ensure that they are in a safe space with an accredited registered therapist”.—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 21 September 2021; c 26.]

Vic Valentine told us that affirmative therapy

“is about holding the space for the individual to find out who they are and ensuring that they can come to that decision themselves.”—[Official Report, Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee, 14 September 2021; c 5.]

It is not about forcing someone down a particular route; it is about holding the space, so that the person can have the conversation.

In that context, do you accept that affirmative therapy could help people to have more supportive conversations, particularly with their families, and begin to address some of the discrimination and oppression that children and adults have experienced, in some cases as a result of deep-seated homophobic and transphobic views?

That would be really helpful. Specifically, could you outline when it is intended that the review will start and what it will consider?