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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 October 2025
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Displaying 5987 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee [Draft]

Crofting and Scottish Land Court Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Thank you.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Decisions on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Good morning, and welcome to the 24th meeting in 2025 of the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee. I remind all members and witnesses to ensure that their devices are on silent. We have received apologies from Mark Griffin MSP, Meghan Gallacher MSP and Willie Coffey MSP. Fulton MacGregor joins us online this morning.

Under the first item on our agenda does the committee agree to take items 3, 4 and 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Thanks. Do you have anything to add, Maureen?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

You covered that well, John. You started to touch on the impact on your members, and I am interested to hear your thoughts on the impact of previous spending decisions on service users and employees. Could you expand on your view of that?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

It is a work in progress. This committee has done a good job of trying to achieve a balance and, when the Conveners Group met the COSLA leader body recently, we said, “COSLA is an organisation, and the Parliament is an organisation. How can we work together in a better way?” I hope that those are the kinds of things that support the Government to work well with COSLA. It is about creating an atmosphere of respect, as John said.

Before we move on to workforce issues, would you like to make any other comments about what is required from the Scottish Government’s forthcoming budget?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

I will bring in another thread to the conversation that you have both touched on—John, you can weave this into anything else that you would like to come back in with. From the conversations that we have been having, we are aware of an increased level of dissatisfaction with council services. What do you think of the idea of having a national conversation with people? As you have said, there has been a big shift in the focus, with education services and social work services certainly taking the bulk of the budget. Are most people aware that that is what has happened in their local authority area? Perhaps when they look at cuts to leisure services or libraries, for example, they are not aware of the greater demand weighing on councils. Do we need to start to talk to people more about that shift?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Hang on a minute. I have one as well. Fulton, do you want to continue with that line of questioning or do you want to move on? We have supplementary questions on collaboration.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Let us hold off on doing that for now and put the supplementary questions on collaboration. Alexander, do you want to come in? I might have something to put to the witnesses as well.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

Is there something about organisational structures and how different organisations with their different governance structures come together? I also wonder whether there is something about skill sets. Maureen, you mentioned conflict arising at times. Do we have the skill set in the workforce, and maybe coming up through school, that enables people to sit well with conflict and with disagreement—to agree to disagree, essentially. If, ultimately, we are trying to create a more collaborative culture for public service reform, maybe we need to look at skills development and supporting people with negotiating in those spaces.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 23 September 2025

Ariane Burgess

That is certainly the case when third sector organisations are run by volunteer boards, as they often are. That is an added layer.

I was going to ask about social care, but you have covered that issue nicely. It was great to hear directly from Maureen about her personal story, because that is one of many stories of families across Scotland.

The fiscal framework has been mentioned a few times in our conversation. I remember the question of who is responsible for the fiscal framework first coming up, after I became convener of the committee, years ago, when Kate Forbes was here as finance secretary. The Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities agreed to work on that as part of the Verity house agreement. Within that framework is the funding formula, and it was pointed out a couple of evidence sessions ago that that is what needs to be addressed. The allocation for each local authority is based on various criteria, but nobody seems to want to address that. I am interested in your thoughts about the fiscal framework in general and about the funding formula.