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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 3402 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Sir Mark, I appreciate that you are a month into your role and that answering these questions is quite difficult. Andrew Davis, you were a member of the board—you have been on the board of HES for a lot longer than the few weeks that Sir Mark Jones has been the chairman. What happened when the Scottish Government asked the board to conduct an investigation into these so-called “HES Corruption” volumes?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

There was an immediate investigation launched. Who did you say was conducting the investigation?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

It was an internal investigation and it has not reached any conclusions yet?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Are you aware of what is contained within these volumes?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Are you saying that there is no suggestion that Katerina Brown has been suspended at any time from her duties as CEO?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

My concern—

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Well, it is very relevant because the chief executive officer is the accountable officer. It is a requirement of the Scottish public finance manual that there has to be an accountable officer in the organisation.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

It is not the board’s responsibility. All right.

Freedom of information requests have shown that the HES human resources department removed an independent investigator’s recommendation that an urgent review of the organisation’s culture be carried out after staff reported a “culture of fear” and “fear of retribution”. The Auditor General has now flagged culture as a material concern, alongside the so-called “HES Corruption” volumes.

I will put these questions to Andrew Davis, who has been a director at HES for some time, because I acknowledge that it is not fair to ask Sir Mark Jones to address them. Why was the recommendation that a culture review be carried out deleted from the investigator’s report? I am quoting FOI information.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Someone needs to come in to deal with these issues who is not currently part of the organisation and who has no particular dog in the fight, because there has been a lot of dog fighting in HES over the period of probably more than a year.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Historic Environment Scotland

Meeting date: 30 October 2025

Stephen Kerr

Earlier, in answer to Jamie Halcro Johnston’s question, you said that it is almost certain that some people will have to leave HES in order for that to happen.

I wonder whether I can tempt you to answer this very simple question. Would it be helpful from a resource point of view—you specifically mentioned resource, and we have not yet talked about the current finances of HES—to you as the new chair of HES if the cabinet secretary were to resource an independent investigation? By “independent”, I mean independent of the Scottish Government and independent of HES. Would it be useful to you in your work, in relation to the charge that Angus Robertson has given you as the new chairman of HES, if Angus Robertson were to initiate that form of independent inquiry, which would deal primarily with the whole culture of the organisation?