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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 29 November 2025
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Displaying 2911 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

So, it could be years off.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

For the SPS?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

I think that the sense on the continent is of an imminent threat of war. Therefore, it is understandable that the European Union will want to press ahead—and rightly so—with British inclusion in SAFE as a third country. I am sure that we could have a longer session on that, but I do not think that there is an appetite to have it today.

On proper EU SPS agreements, there are two models in existence. The agreement with Switzerland, which has been in place since 1999, has dynamic alignment. The EU’s SPS agreement with New Zealand, which uses a different model, is even older. It recognises the equivalence of sanitary measures, minimises physical checks and allows streamlined certification—the last of which would be highly desirable for us as well, I hope you would agree. Of those two existing models—I know that an argument will be that there is a third model, because Britain is in a different category, but those are the two existing off-the-shelf models—I think that what you say in your letter to the convener is that you would favour “dynamic alignment”.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

Can I have one final, very quick question?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

To be fair, you have made your point on that issue, but I want to make a point about the fact that the EU’s approach to this negotiation is very cynical, particularly in relation to the French national interest, when it comes to fishing rights. I think that we agreed on that in the chamber, so I just wanted to make sure that we were still in agreement on that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

Yes. On the Thursday before the UK-EU summit, we had a debate—you might remember it, cabinet secretary, as you were the Government speaker. That morning’s Financial Times had highlighted the fact that the price to be paid for Britain’s ability to make a play for loans from the €150 billion security action for Europe—SAFE—defence fund was fishing rights: the TCA roll-over.

I think that we agreed that that was an unacceptable point of negotiation, given the precarious defence and security situation in Europe. You have rightly pointed out the concession on fishing, although it might have been made in principle, as Keith Brown says, prior to the morning of 19 March. However, on the morning of 19 March, the EU said that there would be no agreement unless we gave it a 12-year roll-over. That is awful, is it not? That is a terrible way to talk about defence and security. Do you still stand by what you said in our exchange in the chamber about the EU’s attitude towards defence and security and fishing rights?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

You just needed to read the newspapers to know that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

Oh, I see.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

But it could be.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee [Draft]

United Kingdom-European Union Summit

Meeting date: 19 June 2025

Stephen Kerr

Because the UK defence sector is an enormous component of the total European defence sector, my understanding is that SAFE will be prioritised—that is what will be approached at pace, and something will be unveiled next year that will allow Britain a role in SAFE. That is why I am asking about the SPS and all the other aspects of the so-called agreement. I am not convinced that it is an agreement. It is three documents with lots of lovely aspirations set out in nice text.

Cabinet secretary, you are a long-term EU-phile and a close observer of the EU. Is it likely that nothing will be agreed until everything is agreed, or do you foresee us—I think this would go against how we know the European Union tends to operate—taking a sequential approach to all the elements that are listed, particularly in the “Common Understanding” document?