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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 12 March 2026
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Displaying 3402 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

That brings us to the end of this part of our meeting. On behalf of the committee, I thank Professor Ainscow, Professor Francis, Dr Robertson and Emma Congreve for the valuable evidence that they have given us this morning.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

You said that something is stopping local authorities from doing that, but I did not quite catch what you said. What is stopping other local authorities from implementing such initiatives that have a proven track record?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

Yes—I was going to ask you to come on to structure. You talk about

“rigid local authority ‘line management’”.

Are you saying that we should kind of rid ourselves of all the guidance, other than the strategic objectives, and just let the practitioners get on with it?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

We are having a problem with the sound in the committee room. We cannot hear what anyone is saying.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

We can. That is excellent.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

That was helpful.

10:45  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Decision on Taking Business in Private

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2022 of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. This is a hybrid meeting, which means that some people are in the committee room—it is nice to be back in the room—and some of the witnesses and members are joining us remotely.

The first item on our agenda is a decision on taking business in private. Are members content to take item 5 in private?

Members indicated agreement.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

The second item on our agenda is to take evidence for our Scottish attainment challenge inquiry. I welcome Professor Mel Ainscow, who is a professor of education at the University of Glasgow, and Professor Becky Francis, who is the chief executive of the Education Endowment Foundation. Both are joining us virtually. I also welcome, in the committee room, Dr Laura Robertson, who is the senior research officer at the Poverty Alliance, and Emma Congreve, who is a knowledge exchange fellow at the Fraser of Allander Institute. It is really good to have you with us.

I start with Mel Ainscow. You submitted some very interesting written evidence. I could not say that I understood all that was said in it, but I will focus on the reasons why we have not made the progress that we should have made on closing the poverty-related attainment gap. In your written submission, you mention five specific areas. For those who have joined us and are watching our proceedings, could you summarise what you have said are the reasons why we have not made more progress and what you describe as barriers to making further progress?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

Are you saying that the focus should be on raising educational standards across the board, rather than on focusing narrowly on the poverty-related attainment gap?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge Inquiry

Meeting date: 9 February 2022

Stephen Kerr

Before I hand back to Michael Marra, I would like to put one more question to Mel Ainscow, about leadership. You are talking about there being overly tight controls at local authority and central levels, so can you comment on the quality of the leadership that is required in order to make the learning environment and school successful? If we are going to devolve more and more powers to headteachers and teachers, what would that look like and, given that we are talking about barriers, what do we need to be doing to ensure that that does not in itself become a barrier?