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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 890 contributions

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Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Dementia Strategy

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Sue Webber

I recognise that that is what we want, but, unfortunately, what is being felt on the ground is some way from that. We need to accept what is actually happening.

My colleague Craig Hoy said that the final years of a person with dementia’s life should be years of comfort and support for them and their friends and families, which goes some way to addressing Mr Doris’s point. We have spoken about the changing roles in families in which a family member has dementia.

Mr O’Kane spoke about developments in his area that help communities to have inclusive spaces and allow people to stay in their own homes for longer, which is important.

Local initiatives are often vital for those suffering with dementia. I want to talk about a brilliant organisation in my region that is close to my heart. Dementia Friendly Pentlands is a voluntary organisation covering Juniper Green, Currie and Balerno, where we have an ageing population and an older demographic. It supports families who are living with dementia and it was set up by two inspiring people: Allister McKillop and Kay Latimer.

The idea was born out of a desire to give people who are living with dementia a stronger presence in their local communities by building communities that are safe, supportive, strong and resilient enough to support people living with dementia and their carers. Creating a community where all are included, where everyone can experience a sense of belonging and where all can express themselves is critical to the efforts of Dementia Friendly Pentlands.

Christine Grahame spoke passionately about many initiatives in the Borders.

Dementia Friendly Pentlands has a community cafe called the Meeting Place, which has just celebrated its one-year anniversary. Rather than placing those living with dementia in a dementia-only environment, the Meeting Place actively encourages all those aged 65 and over to drop in, which ensures that the cafe is truly inclusive. Although I am not over 65, I visited the cafe last summer for its platinum jubilee party, which was also attended by young people from the local primary school. There were lots of cakes and there was singing. On other occasions when I have been, there has also been curling. It is not played on ice but with little discs and things—it is good fun. The point is to make everyone have fun in the moment and forget some of the challenges that they are facing.

Let us not lose sight of the fact that serious action is needed to improve outcomes and boost research into this condition. The Scottish Government must review its approach to dementia care and pull out all the stops to tackle this horrible disease. We will support the Scottish Government’s motion, but having a world-leading commitment is not enough. Carol Mochan said that having strategy after strategy is not an alternative to action. Commitment is not enough; the issue is about delivery and helping those with dementia now.

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Dementia Strategy

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Sue Webber

Will the minister give way?

Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Dementia Strategy

Meeting date: 1 March 2023

Sue Webber

I am pleased to have the chance to close the debate for the Scottish Conservatives. As we have heard, dementia is a debilitating condition that more than 90,000 people in Scotland live with. It has been among the leading causes of death in Scotland for several years, and research by Marie Curie found that, by 2040, the number of people dying from dementia, as the main underlying cause of death, is expected to rise by a staggering 185 per cent.

In his opening remarks, the minister reminded us that there is no cure for dementia and that people can live with it for decades. It is really important that we give those people the best possible quality of life. No one disagrees that people in social care with dementia have complex needs. We have heard testimony from members across the chamber who have direct experience of loved ones in that position. People in social care with complex needs must often pay more than other residents. Even though some Scots pay up to £69,000 a year for social care associated with dementia, the Scottish Government has taken no direct action on the issue. Marie Curie, the Alzheimer’s Society and Care Home Relatives Scotland have called for an end to that policy and the Scottish Conservatives have pledged to review the fees that people who are suffering from dementia have to pay for social care.

As well as sharing her personal experience, Tess White mentioned the fact that we have an ageing population in Scotland, but we also have a chronically underresourced social care system and a social care recruitment crisis. We hear that in many of the healthcare debates that we have in the chamber. She said that we are not equipped to deal with the situation, yet the SNP Government has cut £65 million from primary care and £70 million from social care, both of which offer crucial support to people who are suffering from dementia. My colleague Sandesh Gulhane talked about dementia link workers; that is a tangible, practical example of what that money could fund.

Statistically, one in three of us will be directly or indirectly impacted by dementia in our lives. People with dementia are still very much part of the community, and we must treat them with dignity and respect. I recognise the minister’s comments about the language that is used. However, the reality is that if we ask families about “living with dementia”, we find that they do not recognise that term. I am sorry, but they feel as though they are suffering with dementia due to the reduced hours of care, the shortage of care staff, the absence of overnight care, the lack of respite provision, which Alex Cole-Hamilton and Martin Whitfield mentioned, and the lack of local council facilities. The minister has stated that support should be person centred, accessible and available but, sadly, that is not the reality on the ground.

Meeting of the Parliament

First Minister’s Question Time

Meeting date: 23 February 2023

Sue Webber

There are well-documented issues with paediatric audiology services in NHS Lothian. Constituents of mine have a four-year-old daughter who suffers from progressive hearing loss and has been waiting for more than 20 weeks for an assessment at the paediatric audiology service at Edinburgh’s Royal Hospital for Children and Young People. To my dismay, the family have now been told that they must wait a further 11 months for any assessment for their daughter, who is currently 778th on the waiting list. I hope that that is not too uncomfortable for either the First Minister or the health secretary to hear.

With progressive hearing loss, a quicker assessment can mean a much better outcome and life for Annika and other children like her. What will the First Minister say to Annika and her family while they wait—and wait—for what would be almost a quarter of Annika’s life?

Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Sue Webber

The Universities and Colleges Admissions Service—UCAS—has reported that applications to study nursing in Scotland were down 24 per cent this year, with just over 5,000 applicants. There are more than 4,500 vacancies in nursing and, importantly, more than 2,500 nurses have left the profession in the 12 months to September 2022.

The Scottish Government’s announcement of a minister-led nursing task force is welcome, but any recommendations from it are a long way off. It is clear that student nursing numbers in Scotland are in crisis. What immediate action is the cabinet secretary taking to reverse that trend?

Meeting of the Parliament

Portfolio Question Time

Meeting date: 22 February 2023

Sue Webber

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to increase the number of student nurses. (S6O-01908)

Meeting of the Parliament

International Day of Women and Girls in Science

Meeting date: 9 February 2023

Sue Webber

I am delighted to close on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives in this debate marking the international day of women and girls in science. There are a number of reasons for that. First, I was fortunate enough to have two female science teachers at school. I dedicate this to Mrs Moug, who taught chemistry and is sadly no longer here, and Mrs Roley Walton, who may just be watching—who knows?

Another reason is that I am a life sciences graduate—in biochemistry—from the University of Edinburgh. Fortunately, to refer back to Jamie Hepburn’s comments, it is no longer 1896, and I was able to graduate quite successfully. What I learned then is now most likely taught at school, however, because understanding of the workings of the cell has progressed rapidly since then.

Imagine a time when every lab did not have a PCR—polymerase chain reaction—machine and genome-editing tools such as CRISPR-Cas9 did not exist. Whole-genome sequencing took years and fluorescent microscopy was only just becoming commercialised. Doing quality science under those conditions seems archaic, but that is what we were doing back then. The adaptation of new tools for simple and affordable use has increased the speed of research. If we look back 20 years, it reveals just how far we have come in terms of technology, but sadly not in terms of gender equality in the science world.

Although improvement has been made in increasing the number of women in STEM subjects, we have all agreed that more progress must be made, because the STEM sector is still dominated by men. As my colleague Pam Gosal mentioned, there is a big gender gap in science, with women making up just 7 per cent of STEM apprentices in training and only a quarter of the STEM sector. Entries in science subjects by women are also at their lowest level in five years at both national 5 and higher level.

Michael Marra—and, to be fair, many other members—spoke about the leaky talent pipeline that occurs throughout our careers, from as early as school all the way through to advanced science careers. I am a scientist, and I am probably part of that leaky pipeline now, because I am a politician. It could be much the same for Clare Adamson. It is clear that there is an on-going struggle to attract young women and girls to study STEM subjects and pursue STEM careers.

However, even when there is success in attracting women to the sector, there are, as has been said, issues in retaining female talent. Royal Society of Chemistry statistics show that, in 2021, more than 60 per cent of applicants accepted to university chemistry courses in Scotland were female—the highest figure of all the UK nations. That is laudable, but it is not good enough. At the same time, though, only 9 per cent of professors of chemistry are female. We heard from Audrey Nicoll about the page of grey-haired men that appears on our screens when we google professors, which is not quite what we like to imagine.

Scotland’s schools play a vital role in ensuring that STEM subjects are available to young women and encouraging young women to consider careers in science. I was not able to do all three sciences at the same time, so I did all three by staggering them. I recently helped a constituent to study all three sciences at the same time, but she had to move schools to do so. We need to get better at that. There were fewer science, maths, physics and computer science teachers in 2021 than there were in 2008. Computer science is the future, but we do not know what careers young people will be taking up. However, understanding programming and computers is the way forward, so we have to have more of those teachers.

My colleague Liz Smith made quite a contribution regarding the seven ladies of the University of Edinburgh’s medical school. It was a spine-tingling speech—the way that she animated the story was great. Liz Smith also mentioned that, in 2015, the Royal Society of Chemistry called for dedicated science teachers in each primary school. I support that, considering that gender inequality in participation in science and other STEM subjects starts at a very young age.

Although we commend the improvements in getting women into STEM, there are still massive improvements to be made, and not much progress is being made under the Scottish National Party Government. Martin Whitfield mentioned that there are very few references to women in the STEM education and training strategy. We have to set the example; we are the leaders in this, and it is up to us to ensure that, in our strategies and policies, we present a world that young women can aspire to be part of.

Scotland is home to world-leading organisations in science, and we have heard many examples today. Last year, I visited Q2 Solutions, which is a leading clinical laboratory services organisation in West Lothian. A senior female there, who is a friend of mine, was my link into that organisation. I give a shout out to Maggie Conacher.

Later this month, I will be visiting the National Robotarium, which has unrivalled facilities and world-leading expertise in robotics and artificial intelligence. That is out at Heriot-Watt University. I recently took part in a round-table event entitled “Innovating Healthcare Scotland” alongside remarkable women, including Dame Anna Dominiczak, a Polish-born medical researcher who is now our chief scientist.

Every single day, we should be actively encouraging young women to study STEM subjects and to pursue those careers. The Scottish Conservatives would fully fund the placement of dedicated STEM teachers in every primary school. We want to restore excellence in Scottish schools so that every child has the chance to succeed, no matter their background.

We will support the motion and both amendments today.

16:22  

Meeting of the Parliament

Budget (Scotland) (No 2) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 February 2023

Sue Webber

Will the member take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

Budget (Scotland) (No 2) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 2 February 2023

Sue Webber

Will the member take an intervention?

Meeting of the Parliament

ME Services

Meeting date: 2 February 2023

Sue Webber

I am pleased to bring this debate on ME to Parliament today, and I am delighted that members of #MEAction Scotland are able to join us in the public gallery—I hope that they have managed to make it in—to hear what might be done to improve care for those in the grip of this debilitating condition. For ME sufferers, even making the trip here could worsen their symptoms, because the condition impairs the ability of cells to produce energy and increases post-exertional malaise—the worsening of symptoms following any activity. So, as I said, I am delighted to welcome them to the chamber.

More than two decades ago, the Scottish Parliament cross-party group on ME was formed, and, in 2017, the first millions missing event took place outside the Parliament and former MSP Gail Ross held a members’ business debate. In September 2022, #MEAction Scotland met the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, Humza Yousaf, who said that progress needs to be made and that he did not want to speak to us again in six months and “not have moved forward”. Sadly, it is now almost six months since that meeting and little to no progress has been made.

ME is becoming Scotland’s forgotten illness. Having met the team from #MEAction Scotland and having seen their sheer determination and passion as they continue to fight for targeted funding towards ME treatment by the NHS, I knew that I had to help in any way I can.

A constituent of mine, Jo Bussell Bruce, was an energetic, fit, and ambitious 28-year old manager in financial services with her whole life ahead of her. Jo is now 49 and has had ME for 21 years. She sent me her story, and I would like to read some of it out. She wrote:

“Like so many I’ve struggled with medical appointments over the years. I understand our doctors are overworked, underfunded and haven’t been trained properly on ME, but they must take responsibility for the toxic culture around ME, Long Covid and Fibromyalgia.

At the chronic pain clinic in Leith, I was recommended graded exercise therapy (GET) by a doctor who wouldn’t acknowledge my ME diagnosis. I explained that GET was about to be banned under the new NICE Guidelines.

Before that a doctor joked within earshot about my feeling the need to advise him of my ‘mental health condition’.

Before that a neurologist tried to downplay my diagnosis to ‘burnout’.

Before that it was another GP saying, ‘we call it CFS now, that’s the grown-up name’.

If you ask people with ME if they recognise themselves in my anecdotes, I guarantee they will say yes. Not 20% or 50%, all of them, and you’ll be flooded with far worse stories than mine. We face systemic bias within the medical community that needs education and consequences.

My GP isn’t uncaring, but we live in a time of evidence-based medicine. The Royal Colleges have refused to acknowledge that science has moved on and protects psychiatry’s hold on research funding. Unfortunately for people like me they simply have more resources and status in society to keep pumping out false narratives about our disease.

So, I had to become more knowledgeable about my illness than most doctors and they don’t hide their resentment about it. If you’re in any doubt, read the Reddit threads about ME or Fibromyalgia and you’ll see what they say of us and our diseases. They call us ‘malingerers’, ‘delusional’, ‘heart-sink’, ‘drug seekers’. Would you trust your loved ones in those hands?”

That statement is shocking and the story is heartbreaking, but what makes it worse is that it is very common among sufferers of ME.

Another constituent, Brighid Ó Dochartaigh—I hope that I pronounced her name correctly—got in touch and asked me to share her story to highlight this important opportunity for MSPs to stand alongside people with ME and call on the Scottish Government to implement the recommendations of the stakeholder report that the Government commissioned, which was produced last year. Brighid said:

“I am one of the more than 21,000 people in Scotland living with ME and one of the far too rapidly growing number of people who developed ME because of long covid. I was too sick to work for 13 months and lost a significant amount of income in that time. I’ve been left so ill that I can only work half time, from home, which has significantly altered my working role and I have no guarantee that my employer will facilitate me continuing to work remotely in the long term.

I’m too ill to socialise with friends, to travel, to visit family, or do most of the activities I love. Up until Covid and ME I regularly did fieldwork in remote areas of the world as part of my job as a geologist, and I was an ultramarathon runner. Now I can only walk for 20 minutes before having to stop, rest, and go home. I don’t think anyone would want my poor quality of life. It is unrelentingly hard to live like this, and there is no medical or social support.

In November 2020 I was referred to the NHS ME/CFS clinic in Edinburgh. The specialist physiotherapist and psychologist at the Edinburgh ... clinic were supportive and offered me all the help they could, but they had nothing to offer to help me get better—only to stop me getting ... worse.”

It is disappointing that there has been little progress in Scotland with how ME is diagnosed and managed, despite best practice guidance being available on how to support and treat patients, including guidance on the dangers of graded exercise encouraging people to “push through” symptoms.

As I said, I am here to make sure that the voices of sufferers are heard and that we amplify support for #MEAction Scotland’s campaign. I hope that members who take part in my debate will all help to raise awareness among other MSPs and the wider population. I am delighted to see so many people in the chamber after First Minister’s question time.